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Bruger siden: 14 November 2005
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Sendt: 04 Februar 2009 kl. 21:32 | IP-adresse registreret  

Sølvkabler fra Duelund kan nu opleves i Omega Audio.

Læs hele nyheden her:
http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/nyheder.asp?article id=2053&zoneid=1

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Rabu Acoustics

Bruger siden: 29 Juli 2007
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HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:

Der er utrolig mange udfordringer i at kontruere kabler. Et af disse problemer er isoleringen, som i mange tilfælde er lavet af plastik (PVC).

Hvorfor er det et problem at isoleringen er lavet af plastic?


HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:
Duelunds løsning på dette problem er brug af forskellige olier og silke som isolering i stedet for pvc.

Hvad løser det?


HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:
Denne umiddelbart anderledes måde at bygge et kabel op på har vist sig igennem års afprøvning af forskellige løsninger vist sig at være den bedste.

Hvorfor er det den bedste?

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Frederik Carøe
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DCA - Duelund Coherent Audio

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Sendt: 05 Februar 2009 kl. 14:30 | IP-adresse registreret  

kappen skrev:

HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:

Der er utrolig mange udfordringer i at kontruere kabler. Et af disse problemer er isoleringen, som i mange tilfælde er lavet af plastik (PVC).

Hvorfor er det et problem at isoleringen er lavet af plastic?


HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:
Duelunds løsning på dette problem er brug af forskellige olier og silke som isolering i stedet for pvc.

Hvad løser det?


HIFI4ALL.DK skrev:
Denne umiddelbart anderledes måde at bygge et kabel op på har vist sig igennem års afprøvning af forskellige løsninger vist sig at være den bedste.

Hvorfor er det den bedste?

Den korte version er, at ønsket om at undgå plastic bunder i at undgå statisk ladbare materialer omkring lederen. Jeg har en artikel fra Steen skrevet på godt valbyengelsk, år før vi startede DCA, der beskriver hans indledende forsøg og indgangsvinkel (bemærk han senere foretog visse ændringer i ledergeometri oa.):

Cables

The transmission of signals through cables is disturbed in different

ways.

These disturbances are heavily related to modern time and it’s widely

use of plastics and related topics and further of course to the material

and form of the wire itself.

Cables were at first of no interest of mine, as my primary hobby is

loudspeakers. But two friends Niels and Thorsten had made some

convinced me to look deeper into that area. A new search, which led to

so many interesting results, was started.

In the sea of audio worms offered on the market, one might loose the

orientation and go for the price, assuming there is a connection - the

more expensive the better sound.

I'm really not to judge between them, as they all are wrapped up in

plastics, and I don't like the sound of that material at all.

In my ears it adds a fatness and muddiness to the bass and makes

treble thin, by apparently increasing its lower and upper end, not to be

seen by measurements.

As I hear it, it must have a kind of memory - much like the effect

known from capacitors, and thereby works as an active element in the

dimension of time, where it should be silent. This effect explains why

it sounds of more than is measured.

What then? - At first we must make a choice - single core or multicore.

Multi-core has, in my ears, a common sound of their own, which I

don't find with single core.

Single core doesn't sound totally right either, if it is a round wire.

This I used in the beginning - 1 mm round pure silver in different

insulation, where two materials fell out to be good as insulation: cotton

and silk. But there should be others for you to find - flax for instance,

which I haven't been able to find in pure form as thread.

All cable experiments were done with interconnect cables, as they

transport all frequencies and differences are heard with ease.

The form and size of the wire itself influences the way sound is

transmitted through it.

If you like the sound rounded off in a pleasant manner, you should use

round wire around 0.7 mm in diameter. If you choose them thicker,

you will spoil the precision in the treble.

If you like it very, very precise, you should use thin foil, but then the

lower part of the sound register becomes far to thin without weight.

Here you have to compromise. I have found a balance I like, when the

dimensions of the wire are 0.3 mm thick and 2.5 mm wide. But it is a

matter of taste, and the dimensions can be used in fighting wrong

tendencies other places, in the whole chain of components used.

As earlier mentioned, cotton and pure silk can be used for insulation. It

can be bought as a woven tube.

If you are to classical music, you undoubtedly should choose silver

with silk insulation, as the most neutral and with a very precise sound

stage.

Two main discoveries concerning cables.

When the material of the wire is open to air, we have problems: These

are oxidation on the surface of copper and sulphonation on the surface

of silver.

The surface has to be closed from contact with the air. I was working

with pure silver, preferring that material, so electrolytic plating with

gold seemed natural. Surprisingly it sounded better with gold than

without.

This observation led to a new version, silver first plated with copper

and then with gold. That sounded even better, so at this point I paused

- satisfied.

It seems as if the wire should have low resistance in the centre and

higher and higher impedance towards the surface.

What drove me to my next experiment I can't tell, but I annealed some

of the gold plated cable as well as the copper-gold, and big was my

surprise, when I took the material out of my little kiln. The gold had

disappeared. It couldn't have evaporated, so it had in some way reacted

with the silver/copper - so to say, sunk into it - so the whole purpose

with the gold plating was lost. The gold version turned white and the

copper-gold version turned black. Well! I couldn’t reverse the process,

so there they were for closer listening.

The black version was really awful, but the white-

Surprise! Surprise! It sounded most promising. The whole idea of

protection was cancelled, and a new search began.

A series of plated wires was made with gold in varying thickness.

4,6,8,10,15,20,25 micron. Not at once of course, as it is rather

expensive process, but all were annealed and gradually listened to

always in four versions at a time.

A miracle occurred at 10 micron, 15 even better but at 20 and 25 it was

as if the sound was effected in a slightly wrong manner.

It is easy to see when the thickness is right, the surface should look

exactly like white paper used for machine writing. No metallic shine at

all and no cream colour (too much gold)

To explain the physical effect, as I see it, we can regard a cable as a

very long corridor with reflecting surfaces and even adjacent rooms

and the current as waves of sound.

It is then obvious that the dimensions influence on the propagation of

sound, as the reflective coefficient off the walls does and as the

adjacent rooms - (the connectors and insulation) - do as well.

The mixed crystals formed by the silver and gold serves as dampening

the reflections from the walls of the wire, seen from within. The

surface has changed from metallic and mirror like reflection, to nonmetallic

and diffuse reflection - in other words from order to chaos

like, also for the electrons to meet progressively. This slows down the

speed at high frequency, which is forced out towards the surface.

For protection of the surface of the wire, another solution had to be

found.

I had suspected the effect of plastic being caused from its ability to

hold and deliver a static load.

It suddenly came to me, that layer of linoleum on floors doesn't build

that up. This material is heavily based on linseed oil, which is a drying

oil why that was tried for protection of the surface.

At first the wire and later on the wire with is silk insulation was dipped

in the oil and dried at 60 to 70 degree Celsius in an electrical oven. It

takes 2-3 days.

The listening results were well beyond expectation. I had feared it to

have some deteriorating effect - big was the surprise, as it turned out to

be even better than the gold plated. It was therefore with misgivings

the same procedure was done with the gold plated wire - was all that

much money just thrown away? Luckily their better inside treatment of

the signal worked clearly through.

Used as digital connections I must say the gold plated annealed and

with linseed oil treated cable is without competitions - but the price of

manufacturing - Ugh!

The linseed oil has a secondary very positive effect, as its affinity to

oxygen is very high, whereby the surface of the metal is cleaned

effectively from oxidation and kept in that condition.

Wires have an orientation created by crystallisation of the metal, much

like domains in magnetic material, so it is advisable to mark that, if

they are cut from a longer piece of wire.

When connected they must have opposite direction to one another. In

this way the difference of sound is greatest, when the cable as a whole

is turned - if you can hear the difference hidden. ß-----------------------

-------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------à

Listen for s, t and f sounds and the whole atmosphere in recordings of

choir.

A marvellous recording to judge from is the Philips recording of Misa

Criolla by Ariel Ramirez with José Carreras. Philips 420 955-2

Among other thing listen for the choir, you should clearly understand

the words sung.

Another record I can recommend, is a Opus 111 recording:

“Songs of the world” with Moscow children's choir. OPS 30-157.

Here you are presented children voices and Orf instruments with great

clarity, and a marvellous piano, so naturally recorded.

In general Opus 111 recordings are very good and worth buying, if

you can find recordings of your taste in their catalogue.

Cables for the loudspeaker

These can be made in exactly the same manner.

You may here consider if you want single connection or multi way

connections, and balance the dimensions of the silver for the unit to

connect.

To get the cables to look nice you can, after the treatment with linseed

oil, put on an extra and thicker tube of silk.

Beware of synthetics, when you buy these tubes. They can be pure

synthetic or have synthetics within, without the dealer to know. It is

advisable to check it with fire.

Cotton shall glow, with no melting when the open fire is blown out.

Silk shall be unwilling to burn, but melt, bubble up and smell like

burnt human hair.

I like the end result to behave in a manner, so you can't feel or detect it

to have a metallic wire inside. So I don't hesitate to put it all into the

linseed oil once again, and put on a third tube, to get that behaviour

from the end product. It sounds, as if, the better the wire is protected

from the outer world, the better it sounds. It’s so totally contrary to

plastic insulation.

Håber det besvarer spørgsmålene så nogenlunde..



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Kalle_dk
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Sendt: 05 Februar 2009 kl. 19:33 | IP-adresse registreret  

Det der olie-halløj.......tørrer det ikke ud (eller ind?) med tiden ? Man kunne fristes til (forsigtigt) at spørge, om kablerne skal smøres med jævne mellemrum ? Har man prøvet at sammenligne 2 tilsyneladende ens sæt Dueund interconnect kabler, men hvor det ene sæt IKKE havde fået olie-behandling ? I såfald, hvad var forskellen ?


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Frederik Carøe
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DCA - Duelund Coherent Audio

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Sendt: 05 Februar 2009 kl. 20:18 | IP-adresse registreret  

Som det vist nævnes af Steen, så varmetørres kablerne før levering, så de er faktisk "tørre", når de leveres.

Forskellen på et ikke olieimprægneret kabel og et olieimprægneret ditto, oplever jeg som en udpræget mangel på "fnidder" i lyden, alting antager en anden ro og forståelighed.

For en mere 3. parts baseret beskrivelse: http://www.hifi4all.dk/brugeranm/Anmeldelse.asp?kat=16&i d=148&titel=Duelund+signalkabel +



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Frederik Carøe
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Langendorf
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Sendt: 06 April 2009 kl. 12:05 | IP-adresse registreret  

Er de kabler ikke steget markant, siden steen afgik ved døden?
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nhj4
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Eget ønske!

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Sendt: 06 April 2009 kl. 15:13 | IP-adresse registreret  

det undre mig at man ikke har brugt sølv stik ???
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André Jensen
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Lukket efter eget ønske!

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Sendt: 07 April 2009 kl. 11:16 | IP-adresse registreret  

Langendorf skrev:
Er de kabler ikke steget markant, siden steen afgik ved døden?


Nu havde Steen ingen fornemmelse, for hvad et produkt i produktion reelt burde koste.
Det var vi så en del, der nød godt af.Man kan ikke holde et firma kørende, ved at prissætte
grænsende til foræring. Duelund havde reelt kun brug for få ting. God lyd, cigaretter, lidt
selskab, og et par overalls.


MVH
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